Episode 187: Mastering Storytelling for HR Transformation (Interview with Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic)
Creating a data-driven HR function isn’t just about number crunching. It is the ability to turn these insights into stories that captivate, persuade, and inspire action.
In this episode of the Digital HR Leaders Podcast, David Green sits down with Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic, for a deeply insightful conversation on the transformative power of storytelling in the context of HR data and analytics.
With the world having shifted dramatically towards distributed teams and digital-first communication, the tools and strategies we use to make our case to stakeholders have also had to adapt. Cole, fresh off the publication of her third book, "Storytelling with You: Plan, Create, and Deliver a Stellar Presentation," dives into how these shifts affect the way we should approach storytelling with data today.
Listeners will walk away with a wealth of knowledge on the following topics:
How AI technologies can enhance storytelling skills;
Strategies to better understand your audience and customize your presentations for maximum impact;
Essential guidelines for presenting data to stakeholders;
Cole's secrets to captivating an audience, from confidence and tone of voice to avoiding common speaking pitfalls;
Best practices for seeking and utilising feedback to continuously enhance your presentation skills.
Support from this podcast comes from Worklytics, a people centric analytics solution that combines passive listening with Organisational Network Analysis (ONA) to help you understand how work is getting done.
Curious to see how it works? Worklytics is offering a free Collaboration Analysis to the first 10 qualified companies who express interest by clicking on the following link: www.worklytics.co/DigitalHRLeaders
[0:00:00] David Green: Whether you're influencing the C-suite, sharing insights with cross-functional teams, or advocating change in your organisation, the way you weave data into a narrative can make all the difference. Back in 2020, right before the world embarked on the largest remote working experiment in history, thanks to the pandemic, I sat down with the wonderful Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic, Founder and CEO of Storytelling with Data, to discuss how you can apply effective storytelling techniques to your people data. Fast-forward four years to the present day, and a lot has changed. Distributed teams are becoming the norm, stakeholder priorities are changing, we have more tools than ever to help gather and analyse more data, and HR has evolved to become a key strategic partner to the CEO. This requires new ways of delivering our presentations. While how we present our charts and numbers still and will always have a significant influence on how our stakeholders absorb information, truly influencing your audience is about crafting messages that resonate and drive action. That is why I'm delighted to welcome back Cole Nussbaumer.
Having recently published her third book, Storytelling with You: Plan, Create, and Deliver a Stellar Presentation, Cole is here to share her latest insights and methodologies for effectively communicating your presentations to the evolving expectations of your audience. Our conversation will include exploring Cole's most tried, tested and efficient strategies aimed at helping us plan, create and deliver presentations that inform, captivate and inspire action. With Cole's guidance, today's episode is a must listen for anyone looking to elevate their presentation and storytelling skills. With that, let's get the story started.
Today, I'm delighted to welcome back to the Digital HR Leaders podcast Cole Nussbaumer Knaflic, the CEO and Founder of Storytelling with Data. Welcome back to the show, Cole.
[0:02:18] Cole Knaflic: Thank you.
[0:02:19] David Green: I think last time you were on, we did the interview in person in London in those halcyon days before the pandemic.
[0:02:25] Cole Knaflic: It seems like forever ago, doesn't it?
[0:02:28] David Green: It does. It's just over four years, it was February 2020. So I think you were in town because you --
[0:02:34] Cole Knaflic: Yeah, that was one of my last trips pre-pandemic.
[0:02:38] David Green: Cole, for those who are listening who maybe didn't listen to the episode four years ago, could you share a little bit about yourself and with our audience?
[0:02:45] Cole Knaflic: Absolutely. So, my background is maths and business, and I've always been fascinated in the space where those two things intersect. So, my career started off in banking, I spent time at Google on the people analytics team, and always spent a lot of time with data, and not only working with data, but helping other people understand the work that I had done with data. And it was relatively early on that I got interested in visualising data and graphing it as a way to help more people understand the complicated things that we were doing behind the scenes. When I was at Google, I had an opportunity to build out a course on how to do this, so teaching other people how to make graphs. And then over time, I spread my wings beyond Google and started traveling and going into different companies and teaching people how to take the data that they understood and help make it accessible to others, and help people not only understand the information, but what to do with it, how to act, how to make smarter decisions or have better discussions in light of what the data tells us.
So, I started my company, Storytelling with Data, it's been more than a decade ago now, and it really grew out of the training that I did while at Google, along with the realisation that increasingly, everyone is being asked to use data in their day-to-day work. And people aren't naturally skilled at knowing how to do this, knowing how to look at it and analyse it, but also even when they do know that, how to then talk about it with someone else in a way that makes sense and engages and drives towards better decisions and actions. And so my company, Storytelling with Data, we spend most of our time teaching people how to do exactly that, where we'll go into an organisation, spend half a day or a day with a group teaching both the ins and outs of how do you make a good graph that makes sense to someone else, but also how do you go beyond the graph and really think about the thing that you're trying to achieve; how do you build a story around that and use it to get your audience's attention and build your credibility and drive them to action?
So, we do that through the workshops, the books, the blog, the podcasts, our online community. All of the things that go with that are really trying to help everybody out there who needs to get their point across to somebody else, whether it's with data or more generally, share the tips that we've learned over time through trial and error and research, and basically help people be better communicators.
[0:05:56] David Green: In our last interview, we discussed how you can create compelling stories with data. Since then, we've seen significant technological advancements in AI. I mean, you may have heard about something called generative AI, there wasn't that much noise about it last year. What are your thoughts on how AI can help enhance storytelling with data skills?
[0:06:16] Cole Knaflic: Yeah, it's such an interesting question, David, and I think where AI is really exciting is in how quickly it's going to enable us to analyse data and analyse great amounts of data. And it historically has taken an expert who has years in statistical methods training to do this. And so, I think the power is really exciting. Where it becomes a little scary is maybe when you have people instructing the AI who don't have that grounding in the statistics, the maths, the asking the right questions and kind of poking holes in the right places. And so, I think those skills are still going to be very important, that knowledge is still going to be very important, it's just going to be directed differently.
I think a lot of it will end up being directed at guiding AI to do smart things and knowing when to question or when to kind of poke in order to ensure that things are robust, because it's almost like the junior statistician going out where they just haven't fallen into the pitfalls yet to know of, "Oh, if I throw every variable at the model, it's going to look really good, but I've got all these confounding factors that are actually meaning it's going to break very quickly". And so having people who know what they're doing to be able to, I think, train the AI and do those pieces will still be important.
But the skill that I really don't see AI helping us with, and it's a skill that I think is critical now and becomes even more so as we think five, ten years out in the future, is this ability to engage with another human being, to bring in the context that's useful and an understanding of the business environment and the nomenclature, and put all of these pieces of the puzzle together in a way that helps whatever the output of the generative AI is, to help it make sense and be meaningful. And as we have more tools to help us with this, it's those foundational pieces, I think, that we really need to double down on so that they don't get missed.
[0:08:50] David Green: Knowing how to communicate data is one part of the equation, but we both know that to be able to do this you need to be able to talk and connect with your audience to communicate what matters to them. And you've recently published your third book on this, there we are, for the people watching the video version, Storytelling with You, Plan, Create and Deliver a Stellar Presentation. Could you share in your own words a little bit about what the book's about and who it's designed to help?
[0:10:25] Cole Knaflic: Absolutely. In more than a decade of, well, even more than that, right, of creating graphs and then teaching others to create graphs, I came to realise over time that still something was missing. Somebody can make the most beautiful graph or slide, and if they can't subsequently talk through that information in a way that engages their audience, piques their interest in some way, gets them to want to listen, the beautiful graph is going to fail. And yet, we've all seen the flipside of that, where someone might get on stage to present and have mediocre slides, but if they can connect and build rapport and there's evident passion, that still works. And so over time, it became so clear to me the role that the individual plays when communicating.
I think of my own path, I didn't start out a strong communicator. I'm an introvert, my degree is in mathematics, I like to be in a room by myself, behind my computer; that is my natural environment. But I knew that if I stayed there, I wasn't going to be able to have nearly the impact that I wanted to. And so I used my teaching, I really approached it in the same way that I did graphing, where it was every time I put something in front of someone, I use it as a trial and error to understand what works and what doesn't, and do more of the things that work and fewer of the things that don't. And when you're presenting, you get this beautiful real-time feedback in the eyes and the faces and the body language of the people to whom you're presenting. So, when you are attuned to that, you can understand in the moment how things are going and adjust, or try different things and understand, you know, when I walk to this part of the room, what impact does that have on whether that person pays attention to me or engages in the conversation?
So, I started playing with my delivery and really building a good understanding of what works and how do I use my body language and my hands and my voice to draw people in and get them to want to pay attention to what I want them to pay attention to. And so, I taught myself this over time or learned this over time. As we started growing the Storytelling with Data team, I recognised I can teach this to others, my teammates, who are now delivering workshops around the world as well. And then it struck me, sort of the same way that it did with the graphs, if I can figure out how to do this and I can teach other people how to do it in small ways, anybody can learn these skills. And so, with the yellow book, Storytelling With You, it's really about trying to speed up that process for others so that you don't have to go through quite as much trial and error. But what are the things you can do when it comes to planning and getting really clear on your audience and your message and the pieces that will ultimately help you be stronger when it comes to communicating those things to others?
The book really walks the reader through the robust process from low-tech planning to creating actual slides of graphs and words and images to that presentation piece. But it turns out everything you do along the way, even when it's creating your material or planning your material, all of that, when it's done thoughtfully, can help you be better at presenting ultimately as well. And then there's, of course, some really concrete things that you can do when it comes to honing delivery and practising in a way to refine and build, I think, both confidence and credibility to be able to use some of these tactics.
[0:14:34] David Green: One of the things you talked about there was audience. Understanding your audience is so, so important if you want to deliver a presentation that will speak directly to them. What are some of the strategies that you can recommend to listeners to better understand their audience and tailor their presentations to ensure the message not only resonates but prompts action, because you can have the best insights in the world; you've got to prompt action, that's what you're trying to do with this isn't it?
[0:15:01] Cole Knaflic: Yes. So, with audience, the first step is identifying who they are. I think oftentimes, we cast too broad of a net when it comes to that of, "I'm going to communicate to anyone who might be interested in my project". And you may communicate to all of those people, but you will serve yourself well by getting really specific on who your audience is in a given situation. Ideally, if you can get that down to a single person or a small group of people, it allows you to get really specific in terms of their needs. So, when you think about it, we can tailor basically everything we do for the audience, from when do we meet with them; where do we meet with them; how do we do it; is it virtual or are we in the room with them; are we presenting on a screen or are we physically flipping through paper together talking about things?
So, when you think about it, we could tailor every part of how we communicate for our audience. I think a lot of people, either they say, "Oh, my audience is broad", or they say, "You know what? I don't really know my audience", and just throw their hands in the air, and then go ahead and create the presentation that's for themselves or for their data or for their project, which is so short-sighted, because the more we can do to understand our audience and not just who they are, but really what do they value; what makes them different from you? Because understanding those nuances and then being able to not only craft how you do things in order to make that a comfortable experience for your audience, but also be able to adjust on the fly if you need to, so that you can be gathering more information about your audience even as you're presenting to them.
[0:16:59] David Green: One of the things I love about the book though, and I'm going to pull this out because it came with it, is your step-by-step guide in three categories around plan, create and deliver. I think there's 12 steps in total there, for people that are going to be watching the video, so a step-by-step guide to structuring a presentation along with tips on presenting your data with words, with graphs, with images, that will resonate with your unique audience. Now, I know in our previous conversation and other conversations we've had around Storytelling with Data, we dug deep into this topic, but just for a recap, I'm particularly thinking of maybe some of the HR and people analytics professionals that are listening to this who've maybe got a presentation to deliver in the next week or so, what are some of the key principles to follow when presenting to key stakeholders or maybe even to the board?
[0:18:33] Cole Knaflic: Number one would be being clear on the point you want to make, both for the entire presentation and then for any given slide or with a graph. I'm a big proponent of, if you're going to communicate something, put it into words. Don't let the first time you say those words be in front of your ultimate audience. Say them earlier than that. And any time you're going to show a graph, form a sentence about that graph. It helps you get clear, and it sounds really simple, but it helps you get really clear and specific on the purpose of including it. And by putting it into words, we take away that level of abstraction of, "Oh, I'm including data because people like data". No, "I'm including data because this point tells us X, which is going to change how we do Y, or it's going to counter the biases that I know people have in this space or the way that we've done things in the past". So, being clear on your point and making sure that you put words to that point, through not only how you title a slide, but how you verbalise that information as well.
[0:19:52] David Green: I've been fortunate to see you speak a number of times, Cole, particularly at People Analytics World events in London, I think, and also in Amsterdam last year and at some of the workshops that you've delivered as well. And what strikes me is you always manage to leave your audience inspired. What's your secret, or perhaps I should say secrets, to doing that? What can people listening learn from you? You said this isn't something that you took too naturally necessarily, it's something that you've learned and got better and better at as the years have gone on.
[0:20:25] Cole Knaflic: I can remember, and there's a story actually in the introduction of the book, being the shaking leaf when I would need to talk in front of other people. I didn't breathe deeply enough, so my voice would shake, my hands would shake; I would be visibly nervous and could hear that I was visibly nervous, which then perpetuates and makes the whole situation worse. Fast-forward to today and even just listening to you talk about London and Amsterdam, I'm smiling, because I love being on stage, which is not ever anything I would have anticipated when I think back to shaking-leaf Cole. And it's not so much of a secret.
The thing that did it and the thing that I think can do that for anyone is passion. It's being truly engaged and excited by what it is you're going to share. Because if you are, that energy is contagious and can play out in really useful ways, which we can talk more about. But I think the converse of that is really important, which is if you can't find your own genuine interest in what you're communicating, there is no way you're going to be able to get other people interested in it. And so, you've got to find that nugget, that thing that makes the thing that you're going to talk about thrilling to you, and not everything will be thrilling, but that has the interest in it, because when you can do that, then that's going to come across to others in ways that can be really useful.
Then, I think, beyond that, it's being thoughtful about how you use the tools at your disposal when you are communicating. And so, when you think about slide or a graph, you can use contrast, you can use animation, you can do these things. There are things you can do with yourself as well. How you move, how you use your body language, your hands, your voice is a hugely powerful thing that I think we don't give nearly enough credit to, both in terms of volume, right, if I'm going to make a good point, I can get loud; or, if I want to shift things in the room, get people to tune in, I can get quiet and have people perk up. I can speed up as I get excited and bring people along with me as I make a big point. I can pause to bring emphasis to something. And these things feel very uncomfortable if you've not been playing with them. And so I'm always a big advocate of, test things out in low-risk spaces first. in casual conversations, in team meetings, before you go to your next board meeting and play with your voice, for example. But once you start doing it, then you get to witness the magic of when things work and when it's done well. And when I say I love standing on stage, it's because of that superpower that you can get when I know that I can engage an audience, because I'm going to go up there, I'm going to smile, I'm going to have fantastic body language with my shoulders back, and it's going to make me look confident and feel confident. I'm going to use my voice and my hands and bring people along with me.
[0:24:10] David Green: Yeah, and you're right, it's so important. I mean, you talked about the passion. If you're not passionate of what you're talking about, how can you expect people listening to pay attention and be passionate? So I mean, particularly last year at People Analytics World, your presentation was all about critiquing good things about people's delivery style and bad things. So, it's even more important, I guess, then that you're passionate about it, but also prepare for it and confident in yourself. Because if you're saying, one of the worst things you can do in a presentation is not to appear to be confident, you've got to appear to be confident in yourself when you're delivering that, but not overconfident, of course. So, it's kind of a balance, isn't it?
[0:24:47] Cole Knaflic: Yeah, and body language is so important with that because for confidence, you need to have enough breath to be able to breathe deeply and use your voice powerfully, and so standing or sitting straight, having your shoulders back, right? You think about where your lungs are, you need to have room for those to expand so that you can do these things. And actually, a fun exercise is to just do the opposite of that. If you kind of roll into yourself, right, I'll do it, I roll into myself, I slump my shoulders, my head's down, notice how my voice changes, even in a podcast where you don't see it; versus I sit straight, I have my shoulders back, I'll use my hands, I'll smile. You can hear the difference in my voice when I'm smiling. That is absurd and so powerful. And so, that's where there is, I think, there is something to the fake-it-until-you-make-it sort of piece where even if you're not feeling the confidence, if you can do some of these things to your body that mimics what confidence would look like, you can start to internalise it as well. You almost to trick yourself in ways that can be useful for anyone who gets nerves when it comes to presenting.
Another trick for if you find that you have nerves ahead of presenting at a meeting or on stage is, I'm never a fan of memorising because that can go wrong. If you forget the word or the phrase, then you're lost. But I am a fan of committing things to memory. And one of the most important things to commit to memory are just your first few minutes, how you're going to start. And I will talk through this aloud multiple times ahead of time. I'll often take walks around my neighbourhood and I'm talking out loud to myself. And again, not to memorise, but if I know there are five points I want to hit in my introduction and I can talk through those in a few different ways, what I'm doing is expanding the number of pathways in my head that I know I can use to get from point A to B to C to D to E, and have ways to navigate that. And by committing that to memory and practising aloud a few times in a few different ways, now when I get to the important thing, when I have those first few minutes of nerves, that's enough to get me through it eloquently. And then, by then you've been going for a couple minutes, and so your nerves will have abated, and now you can think on your feet as you need to.
So, there are a lot of things that you can do for planning how you're going to present that will make that a more comfortable experience and a more successful experience because of that. And that's really what I try to pack the book with, are just tips on things like that that anyone can roll into, whether it's the formal presenting from stage or just a normal important business meeting, where you need to show up as your best.
[0:28:00] David Green: Now, in terms of delivery, your delivery will be different whether you're presenting to a large audience, maybe you're presenting to an external audience. I know some of the people listening to this probably get on stage at conferences like People Analytics World, whether you're presenting to your team, maybe a group of your peers, maybe the HR leadership team, or maybe the board, or maybe an all hands; and also, whether you're doing it in person or maybe you're doing it virtually as well. And increasingly, we're going to be doing that, we're going to be presenting to some people that are face-to-face, some people that are virtual. What are your tips about when you're presenting to an audience that are both face-to-face and virtual?
[0:28:39] Cole Knaflic: Oh, that's the hardest. So, I'll preface by saying, when you can do those things separately, so when you can be in person with people who are in person and separate from that virtually, I am a fan of breaking that up because then you can really target how you do things for the given setting. I think when you can't do that, when you have people who are both in person and virtual, it can be useful to have a second person with you when that makes sense, particularly if you are in a room with the people who are together in person, because then you could have your second person be focused on the virtual pieces and actually lend a voice to the people who are virtual when that makes sense.
One of the things I really enjoy about virtual is, it gives people other ways to participate. So, I talked about being an introvert. What we find in our workshops is we get participation from introverts in totally different ways because of the chat feature. But when you have people also in the room, it can be hard to keep an eye on chat at the same time. So, having a second person who can help manage that can be a useful thing. I also think when you are presenting and you have people together in person and virtually, your voice becomes even more important of a tool, because for those who are watching virtually, you've been flattened, you've been reduced in size, and so you don't have the same power when it comes to expression and body movements and those sorts of things. But you can make up for that with how you use your voice, in terms of keeping people engaged and listening, staying away from any sort of monotone bits that are going to invite people to tune out.
Also, the way that you optimise your content might change if you have people virtually. I'm a big fan, particularly when showing graphs, but this can work with any sort of more dense information that you need to show, which is rather than put everything in front of your audience at once, build up to it. So, with a graph, I might start with the axes and talk through what those are, and then layer on data and build the graph as I'm talking through it. For those who are tuning in virtually, the email inbox is only ever a click away, so this fear of missing out can cause people to keep their attention on you and on your materials, which can be a useful thing. But I think stepping back from the specifics, just thinking critically about what success looks like in the given scenario. It could be that the important stakeholder is in the room with you, which means you probably don't have to optimise as much for the folks who are joining virtually. In the case where that's opposite, then you'll change how you do things, but being really clear on what success looks like and then trying to set yourself up so that that comes to fruition.
[0:31:51] David Green: We're going to talk about feedback. So, we can obviously look at our -- we can record ourselves, we can listen to ourselves, but what are some of the other best ways to seek and utilise feedback for continuous improvement in your presentation skills?
[0:32:03] Cole Knaflic: I think giving someone else a heads-up before you want the feedback and being specific on what you want the feedback on, because if I don't give you a heads-up and you were in the meeting and I just asked you afterwards, "How did I do?" you're going to say, "Oh, you did fine, Cole", which is not very useful; versus if I tell you, "David, I've been really struggling, particularly in podcasts, with the filler word 'so', where I like to end sentences, or 'right' -- excuse me, not so. I either start with 'so' or I end with 'right' or do both of those things. And so, I would like you to listen for that and let me know if you think I overuse those filler words". That gives you something really specific to say, because then you can be like, "I was counting and you actually ended a sentence with 'right' 15 times. That seems a little excessive, Cole". So, it both gives me better feedback, but it also grants you permission to be direct with it in ways that can be useful.
So, I'm a big fan of identify somebody to give you feedback ahead of time and let them know ahead of time what to be watching out for. And they'll be your cheerleaders when you're there at the meeting or at the presentation, and so that can also be a friendly face in the audience that can be useful from a confidence-building standpoint as well. So, identify someone ahead of time, be clear on what you want feedback on, follow up with them afterwards and then do it all again from there.
[0:33:36] David Green: Actually, you just reminded me of something from your speech at People Analytics World in London last year: filler words. So, you gave examples of them and I was like, maybe I used that one this morning, because it's so easy to use those filler words, because you almost, I don't know, you're moving to the next point so you just use some of those words, 'so', 'right', there's plenty of them, aren't there?
[0:33:56] Cole Knaflic: Well, and it's like clutter in a graph, where a little bit here and there is not going to be the end of the world. The problem is when there's too much of it, it just can get in the way of our message, it can chip away at credibility or make us sound uncertain. So, that's one of the big reasons to record oneself, both to become aware of which filler words you're using, but then also when you are using them so that you can decide what to do instead. Most often, the 'what to do instead' is simply pause.
[0:34:27] David Green: So, Cole, obviously the book is structured around three areas, around plan, create, and deliver. So, give listeners one insight to take away for each of those three steps, plan, create, deliver. I know you've done some of that already, but just all together now and here.
[0:34:45] Cole Knaflic: Absolutely, so I would say when it comes to plan, we've talked about audience a lot already, so I won't rehash that. When it comes to plan, think about your story and how you want to start, what the middle part is going to be that will pique and maintain people's attention, and then how you're going to end that for your audience, having them be really clear on what the action you want them to take is. When it comes to creating, I'll emphasise something that we touched on before, which is that your slide, your graph, never should that be the centre of the show. These are your useful assistant. They're there to help you, but you as the presenter really are where the communication is going to fail or succeed. And so, that brings me to the final section on deliver.
I will say, plan strategies ahead of time that are going to build your confidence, that are going to help you feel prepared. But when you get there, when you're doing the thing, the meeting or the presentation, you've got to let that go a bit. That foundation should be there, you've internalised it, but then you really want to be in the moment and observing and both enjoying what's happening, but also reacting to what you're seeing in terms of the facial expressions of your audience. If you see furrowed brows, you want to decide, "Well, do I dig into that? Do I ask questions, or do I slow down and explain something in another way?" So, you can be really in the moment and use what you learn in the moment to make that a fantastic communication situation, both for yourself as well as for everyone else.
[0:36:44] David Green: Cole, wonderful insights as ever. So, before we get to the question of the series, I know our listeners would have found this conversation helpful, the insights that you've given. Because I know you're always working on something new, I think you've actually sketched out in the front of the book that it was a kind of six-year journey, actually, or four or five-year journey to actually publish this book.
[0:37:03] Cole Knaflic: That one took a while, yeah.
[0:37:05] David Green: But that was your third. What are you working on now? Is there anything we should keep our eyes open for?
[0:37:10] Cole Knaflic: There is. Here, I'll hold up an early copy for those who are watching, which is something that I have printed and glued together. But it features a data-drawing dragon, named Daphne, who is going to help me teach the six- to nine-year-old population the beauty of graphs for problem-solving. And so, a much younger audience this time, but colourful and fun. Daphne Draws Data is available to pre-order across all booksellers now, and will be available in print in September 2024.
[0:37:48] David Green: Fantastic, well my kids are 15 and 13. I think my 13-year-old --
[0:37:55] Cole Knaflic: There's something for everyone!
[0:37:56] David Green: I'll make sure I get a copy for her as well! Cole, now the question of the series, so this is something we're asking everyone on this series of the Digital HR Leaders podcast, and I think you'll bring a unique angle to this one. How can HR leaders harness the power of employee insights and analytics to revolutionise the workplace experience? And that's quite a big question.
[0:38:18] Cole Knaflic: Revolutionise the workplace experience; no small question!
[0:38:22] David Green: No small question here to finish though!
[0:38:26] Cole Knaflic: That's a great one. I think encouraging HR professionals to adopt a data-driven mindset, which is maybe not something that historically has been emphasised, and maybe even historically has been shied away from, but that means investing in themselves, getting the right tools and technologies, maybe even attending a Storytelling with Data workshop, and really fostering a culture of openness and continuous feedback. And I'll stress, not just the importance of the collection of the data, but also actively listening to it and acting upon it to create a workplace where employees feel empowered, engaged, and valued; and do all of this while leveraging the power of story.
[0:39:24] David Green: Cole, it's always a pleasure. Thank you very much for being a guest on the Digital HR Leaders podcast again. Please can you let listeners know how they can find out more about you, follow you on social media, and find out more about Storytelling with Data, and maybe book you or one of your team for a workshop.
[0:39:39] Cole Knaflic: Yes, thank you for the invite, David. It's been a pleasure as always. Folks can find many more resources at storytellingwithdata.com. I am at @storywithdata on Twitter. We also have a Storytelling with Data page on LinkedIn where we post tips and tricks and links to all of our good stuff daily. So, I encourage folks to check that out as well.
[0:40:00] David Green: Cole, thank you so much.
[0:40:02] Cole Knaflic: Thank you, David.
[0:40:03] David Green: Take care and look forward to seeing you around in London in a few weeks' time.
[0:40:06] Cole Knaflic: Yes, thank you.