Episode 244: Scaling Organisations Through Strategic HR (with Olena Bondareva)
What defines leadership in a modern organisation? And how do you find and support the people driving culture, clarity, and change?
That’s what Olena Bondareva, Global HR Director at airSlate, unpacks in this episode of Digital HR Leaders – a must-listen for anyone rethinking how we define and measure leadership.
Host David Green speaks with Olena about how she built a people strategy from scratch during a time of extraordinary uncertainty - navigating the pandemic, the war in Ukraine, and rapid global scale.
Olena shares how she prioritized the right systems, embedded people analytics into decision-making, and uncovered the hidden influencers shaping culture and performance.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
How to identify the informal influencers shaping culture and driving change
What truly defines leadership effectiveness in a fast-scaling business
Why data literacy and human fluency are the twin skills HR leaders must master
How airSlate is using AI to enhance performance, hiring, and employee support
Whether you’re scaling a people function or rethinking leadership development, this episode will challenge assumptions – and leave you with actionable insights.
This episode is sponsored by HiBob.
HiBob is the all-in-one HCM platform built for HR leaders who need connected data, flexible workflows, and a user experience people actually want to use.
Learn more by visiting hibob.com/davidgreen2025.
[0:00:11] David Green: We talk a lot about leadership in HR, how to support it, measure it, and develop it. But what really makes a leader effective today? And how do you spot the people in your organisation who might not have the biggest title, but who hold the most influence? That's something Olena Bondareva, Global HR Director at airSlate, has been thinking deeply about. Olena joined airSlate right in the middle of the pandemic, and at a time when the war in Ukraine was just beginning. It was a moment of huge uncertainty, but also a chance to build people strategy from the ground up. Today, Olena shares how she approached those early days, what systems and processes she put in place first, and how she used data to build trust and drive decisions. We also explore the work she's been doing around leadership effectiveness, what signals matter, how to identify the informal influences that shape culture and drive innovation and change, and why we might need to rethink how we recognise impact across the organisation.
If you're leading people strategy, scaling fast, or just trying to understand what good leadership really looks like in today's world, there's a lot to take away from this episode and plenty of practical tips from Olena. With that, let's get the conversation started.
Olena, welcome to the show. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. To kick things off, please could you share with our listeners a little bit about yourself, your role at airSlate, and the journey that got you to where you are today?
[0:01:49] Olena Bondareva: Hi, David. Hi, everyone. And thank you for having me here. So, I've been working in HR for more than 17 years. Started my career at consulting, PwC, and switching to agriculture, outsourcing and out-staffing, then to being Head of HR at Ubisoft, Ukraine, and most recently into SaaS and tech at airSlate. And they gave me a real great global perspective on how HR is able to enable growth and resilience at the same time. And today, I lead global people strategy across more than six countries, focusing on building systems, culture, leadership practices, and help organisations thrive.
[0:02:32] David Green: When someone asks you, Olena, what you actually do as an HR leader, what's the story that you tell first?
[0:02:39] Olena Bondareva: The story I tell first now is if you take business strategy, I am the one to help you connect it to what you do with people, so what your people strategy should look like so that you can continue growing your business. And it's always about business, of course, but people are the enablers. People are actually moving the wheels and pushing this forward. So, I know that years ago, when I just started working in HR, I was thinking, "Okay, I should be going into the leadership role, because I see and I know how this can be done much better". It was more about policies years before, and now it's more about business impact, the growth, resilience, effectiveness of the organisation. So, the story has shifted from the processes to impact a lot.
[0:03:26] David Green: You joined airSlate, we were still during the pandemic at the time, or maybe coming out of the major part of the pandemic, and shortly after the war had started in Ukraine. And you mentioned that you were working in Ukraine for Ubisoft, and I think you're based in Poland now. So, that's a pretty extraordinary set of circumstances to be joining an organisation as an HR leader, both professionally, but also I presume personally as well. What did those early days look like for you as an HR leader entering a new organisation in a new country?
[0:04:01] Olena Bondareva: Oh, indeed, it was quite an adventure, I'll have many stories to tell. And for me, it was a year and something before the war started in Ukraine when I just joined airSlate. So, my initial stages were a lot about building the trust fast, understanding what the current company has, as we've been already quite big when I joined. And I've been historically the first Head of HR ever for this company. So, honestly, I think it really tested me well. And after building the trust, it was a lot about safeguarding people, it was a lot about ensuring business continuity. So, closer to the gossip that the war is about to start, we started shaping the business continuity plan and I was the one leading the efforts for all the leadership team. In the end, we relocated and protected our teams ahead of time, while really keeping the business running. And it was amazing to see how our teams were actually building up together, and everyone who could work were working and filling in for the colleagues who were not able to do that. And actually, I think we really did great as a business at that time, really making sure that our customers did not notice anything in what is going on in the background.
At the same time, it really informed the HR team how it was perceived by the employees. We were not only the support function just to come by the regular questions, but we were always there proactively saying, "Hey, we recommend you to this, take a look at this, come to us if you need anything over HR's scope. And it was an amazing test to the whole HR team, how we were able to be more universal than just HR specialists.
[0:05:53] David Green: Yeah, it's an incredible journey. I mean, we saw during the pandemic how HR kind of stepped up and supported organisations, not just with the usual support they provide, but in others and checking in, making sure people are okay, understanding if people working from home, for example, whether they had the tools to do their job. But in the situation that you've just described, that's even more extreme. It's not just that people are working from home. They not only had to actually work from home, you said you had to relocate the business and the people, presumably, from Ukraine to Poland. I mean, from a personal perspective, that must have been a real challenge as well.
[0:06:38] Olena Bondareva: Absolutely. That's where we tested the resilience of our team and my resilience personally. I didn't know that I was so resourceful and continue working in any circumstances further. Even it was a big emotional stress for everyone. It was a shock for multiple people as nobody believed that it's going to happen. But at the same time, we had to worry also about the physical security of our colleagues, and making sure that the business is running. So, it was like having at least three jobs at the same time, while also being a mum as for me and keeping track of my family here. So, it was an amazing time. But also, what we have learned is that the support of the team, of the company support, we've learned that we are more than just colleagues. And we actually were really supporting each other on every matter, whatever was falling in between. And that was really something amazing.
So, even the relocation to a new country for multiple employees we had at that time was more smooth as we kept a really nice community of people, and making sure that everyone helps everyone with questions or whatever is needed here locally. But also, we have built a really nice proactive plan on opening our hub in Poland half a year before. So, we already had office established, we had some leadership here. And honestly, how the Polish team has hosted us, invited us and took care of us was something outstanding. We were not able to believe that it's actually happening, and that level of support is still continuing until today.
[0:08:14] David Green: You mentioned you were the first Head of HR in the company as well. So, let's transition to that now. I mean, even more of a challenge than it would usually be to do that. What were the first three systems or processes that you stood up and why did you focus on these ones in particular?
[0:08:32] Olena Bondareva: So, my plan when I just joined the company, I understood that we need to start with the basics, like whatever is happening further, the basics are the most essential. And we didn't have any proper HR infrastructure in place. So, this is where I have run the multiple analysis on what this company needs today, what we will need in five and the next ten years. So, we started with picking the HRIS and this is where we happily picked HiBob, and it's been really amazing collaboration, and thanks to them. Actually, we're meeting today, so I do appreciate all the support we get from Bob. The next step was the ATS, and we have implemented the system to make sure that we are tracking the candidates who understand the best data which is accessible to us, so that we are able to perform the best and hire the top talents. Now, globally, since our strategy has changed, we've been globalised a lot, so the data has become even more essential to us.
The second step was establishing the performance management system and that has been supported with building from scratch the HR business partners function, which was not in place as well. So, the performance management system has been upgraded. And then, the next step was in the plan to establish the proper people data analytics flowing into the leadership meetings and discussions and the strategic discussions all the time. However, that has been replaced with the priority of ensuring the business continuity practices are set in the first place. And this is where we have or put it as a fourth priority further, but it's heavily actively developed at this moment in our company.
[0:10:11] David Green: That's great. And why did you particularly pick those three processes first or four processes first? I completely understand the business continuity piece coming in lately. And how did you get buy-in from senior leaders on those processes as well?
[0:10:30] Olena Bondareva: Yeah, so those practices are basically the foundation. Yeah, so like if we take the pyramid, without that foundation, any company would not be able to properly scale. And the risk would be that you can rather go further blindly, so sort of guessing the plan rather than planning what actually has to be done according to what you see and how you measure it. And this is where the HR infrastructure enabled us to make sure that we are able to scale and analyse what size we need to be, how fast we need to move forward, if we're going in the right direction. The performance management was a lot about we were willing to conquer the world. And at the same time, we wanted to make sure that we are able to focus and have predictable results so that people are able to deliver amazing outcomes within their areas of responsibility. And this is where the performance management system wasn't questioned, that everything should be planned, what do we want to achieve, how we want to see it happening, and what exactly is the outcome we want to see? So, sort of planning backwards, and driving proper performance expectations was about setting the plan on how we do what we expect, and then how we measure so that people are able to deliver well.
Then, the data analytics definitely has been, over the last ten years, in HR leaders' community, quite a topic as HR should become data-driven. And this has been in my focus so that we are able to understand the numbers and also start predicting, thanks to those numbers, what's going to be happening next, so that we can advise to the business what to focus on and what to prioritise first. For the business continuity practices, it was rather a situation, right? So, we wanted to make sure that the business is able to drive further. How? We had a discussion with the leadership team. So basically, each situation since the moment I joined, it was about speaking for people, speaking about people, but in the terms of business, so what the business wants to achieve versus how we're able to enable it through what is missing right now and which the gaps are. So, the priority I took in these discussions was about a lot, the effectiveness and the efficiency of the solution so that they will not cost too much to the business, but they are tailored to what the business really needs at this moment, and then the best providers were picked from the list.
[0:13:10] David Green: This episode is sponsored by HiBob. Still managing comp, performance and onboarding across disconnected tools? It's costing you time and holding your team back. HiBob is the all-in-one HCM platform built for HR leaders who need connected data, flexible workflows, and a user experience people actually want to use. When Ecosia switched to Bob, they cut their contract and onboarding time from 8 days to just 15 minutes and saw a 706% return on investment. Get the full story at hibob.com/davidgreen2025, or come and see us at HR Tech in Las Vegas, booth 2822. HiBob, HCM for people-proud companies.
How do you decide as a Head of HR what to put in front of senior leaders, and how do you make sure that the insights stick? And also, maybe more important to that, how do you get from insights to decisions to outcomes?
[0:14:31] Olena Bondareva: Yeah, indeed what you're saying is something which is quite a challenge for quite a number of my colleagues. You have already a lot of data accessible. Some companies still do not have established, but having data accessible, I think it's a core and it's quite critical. So, starting from Ubisoft as an example, I have been using over 21 major HR KPIs to make sure to see the actual picture of what is going on in all the areas, as we had more than 1,000 people in two studios in Ukraine. And at airSlate, when I just joined, we didn't have any data available. Everything had to be built, and then ensure that the data is inserted properly. So, when it goes to the principle that HR should have the data, indeed I think HR should have a lot of data to be able to understand what is going on, analyse it from different angles and see what the picture is. And when it goes to the leadership, of course, the leadership would not want to see everything in the background, what's going on under the table. And this is where the principle here is less is more.
So, we show the data that actually tells the story after we understood and after we analysed it really well from different angles, what story we have, what's actually happening, and then connecting it to the strategy, understanding what is the issue, where do we want to go. It could be a retention of key talent, a retention of the top performers, it could be a time to productivity, how fast are we onboarding people, and if we're hiring the right people, which are able to onboard fast into our specific environment. And then leadership effectiveness as leaders has become very critical to drive the results for the business. So, which major focuses were for the executive team to look at was on those major items. And then, we would be making it actionable and simple, like zooming in into each specific area and then seeing what exactly can be done by the leadership.
What was also insightful to us is once we were showing a bit more of data to the leadership, they started asking more questions. They started asking, "What is happening if I do this? Why did it happen?" and then connecting them to their personal day-to-day actions. And then, their leaders were more curious how they're impacting and how that results into their teams and the productivity. So, this is where I would be talking probably about major five, maximum ten data points to be presented to your leadership team so that you can cover all the HR areas properly, and then make a story. But this has to be picked according to your current situation and your business, depending on the stage of your development, and where do you want your teams to be in the future.
[0:17:43] David Green: When you measure leadership effectiveness, what are some of the signals that you look out for? And what have you found that distinguishes leaders who drive real clarity and engagement from those that don't?
[0:17:54] Olena Bondareva: Thank you for this question. And it was quite a topic for our organisation within the last year, at least. So, we were constantly getting different data on different leaders, when understanding their results they are reading together with their team. Those were different versus the actual results we were getting from the engagement surveys, where the people were rather very happy and very satisfied with their leader. But answering the questions in a different way, when you would be asking them, "How well do you understand the department strategy? How well do you understand the company strategy?" and those were quite often different.
So, the leaders, which actually were driving the results and pushing the teams to get better results, sometimes they would be getting amazing feedback from their teams as being really great leader, the best ever manager, a go-to person, and really, like, "On the top of the top for recommending my manager as a great manager to work with". And those managers which were rather more demanding would be getting a bit lower ratings. But at the same time, their ratings in the area of understanding the future of the business, why we do these things, were also higher, while not being so liked by the team personally. And that's where we were starting to become more curious, what is actually leadership effectiveness in our organisation? And how do we want to push it even further so that the actual true leaders which drive business results have more empowerment, and focusing on the right things, not just being liked by your team members? And that's where we started connecting different parameters into one story in one picture, and it actually worked really nice for us.
That was something as a story to tell, the most challenging one to connect into one story to the executive leadership, as we had to also use some anecdotal data connected with the business outcomes, and then come up with the full report.
[0:20:00] David Green: Yeah, it's that balance, isn't it? Who are the leaders that drive results versus who are the leaders that are liked? And as you said, they might not necessarily be the same. Yeah, and it's kind of striking that balance, I guess, between that. And then with that information, how does that help? Obviously, it helps the business understand what is an effective leader in airSlate. Is that helping you with things like training, mentoring, recruitment and selection, those sorts of things as well?
[0:20:33] Olena Bondareva: Absolutely. It gave us an additional star insight to how further to build the leadership development programme as when finalising and connecting the dots, we realised that those leaders which were quite demanding with the results but had more emotional connection with their teams, they were true leaders to their team members. They were able to balance out on also the feedback from the team. So, the team engagement level continued to be very high while understanding the business and while delivering really good results. So, they were really hardworking teams and delivering amazing outcomes. And we connected this indeed to the leadership programmes, making sure that true managers understand that they are leaders in the first place, and connecting emotionally to what their team would need to hear, to understand, to get clarified, and get supported on also emotionally when it's not only formally, it's very essential. And this is where we also injected this into the practices which were done by our HR business partners on daily routine and checking in with the managers, so they remember those best practices when being stressed to get those results done.
It's been over a year-and-a-half for now, and we see really great results coming in; also, for the new leaders, which just obtained this new role and, as we know, sometimes can be struggling with new stress of the new role of managing the team.
[0:22:16] David Green: That's really good. It's a great example, really, of the power of the right data when you collect it and you do the right analysis and you understand what it means, and you get action-taking on it. And then obviously, you're improving that all the time. And that's connecting it to business results as well. And I think it's a very good example of how to use people analytics to drive business performance. Continuing a slightly similar theme, beyond formal managers and leaders, there are also individuals who may not have a large or senior role, but hold significant influence in connecting people and driving change. I know you've done some work on this. How did you identify these people as well?
[0:23:02] Olena Bondareva: I think it's been really a challenge, and one of the top questions any organisation would have since COVID started, and we became more and more remote, some companies even became full remote. And what was visible before in-office became invisible, almost invisible, at this moment for the organisations today. And that was one of the questions we started looking into, understanding that in tech, not only leaders are very important to drive their results, but also the employees, which are individual contributors, are very essential to make sure that the results are delivered, that the goals are understood, that the strategy is clear to everyone, and everyone is accepting and supporting and pushing towards the change we need to run every day as of today. And that's where we turn into understanding more of individual contributors in our organisation. And we started to feel some pressure when trying to implement changes. We understood that some individual contributors sometimes were helping the organisation. But in some other cases, they would rather be blocking that and complaining more and spreading that negativity over the organisation.
So, that's where we started to analyse more the cross-functional ties, the tenure of employees, their engagement level, where they sit, how often do they come to the office, and how much are they a go-to person if someone wants something to be done quickly or something to be implemented quickly or something to be prioritised versus other things to be delivered for this project. And we found out that we do have those individual contributors which know those invisible ties and know those invisible buttons in the organisation, how to make them go faster, and how to find the people with your right connections and make sure that things are done really more efficient, faster, and with bigger priority on quality and focus. And that's where we understood that our collaboration networks and the systems we use are very essential, but also asking employees on, "Who is your go-to person if you have a question, or who is your go-to person if you don't know how to make something done, which is outside of regular scope or outside of regular process?" This would be giving the organisation additional insights.
At the same time, what we did next is we made sure that the HR team also includes the communication techniques into driving the changes. So, usually when the organisations, like huge ones, about 1,000 people, they would be planning any changes through the hierarchical structure, starting with the top leadership, then middle management, and then going to ICs through the middle management rather more often, having a regular all-hands meeting; where we have understood, it would be much better to also inject throughout this process, before implementing the changes, in engaging those influencers before getting their advice, asking them what they actually think, what's the actual reality versus how we see it from the side as HR or from top-down as leadership, and whether this would actually work or would the employees sabotage it as a change. That's where we started to get really honest, insightful answers and really interesting ideas how it could be tweaked before it's actually adapted.
This has resulted into the fact that it may take a bit more time, it may take a bit more different ideas which are not so polished in an aligned way, but this is a matter of someone who's working on the project and implementing new things, is able to use or reject if that would be making sense. And I think it has been really invaluable additional asset for any company to use for the future on driving the change.
[0:27:09] David Green: I want to take a short break from this episode to introduce the Insight222 People Analytics Program, designed for senior leaders to connect, grow, and lead in the evolving world of people analytics. The program brings together top HR professionals with extensive experience from global companies, offering a unique platform to expand your influence, gain invaluable industry insight and tackle real-world business challenges. As a member, you'll gain access to over 40 in-person and virtual events a year, advisory sessions with seasoned practitioners, as well as insights, ideas and learning to stay up-to-date with best practices and new thinking. Every connection made brings new possibilities to elevate your impact and drive meaningful change. To learn more, head over to insight222.com/program and join our group of global leaders.
One of the challenges we see sometimes with doing the network analysis and finding out key influencers in this case, and using that to support strategy and change and innovation, is who gets access to that data? I mean, do the individuals themselves understand that or what? I mean, who gets those insights?
[0:28:43] Olena Bondareva: So, the access to the data, who are the influencers, I guess, would be staying at the level of the person, is us recognising, "Hey, you're really valuable in the company", underlining this value and coming back with the questions and advice, which is driving the engagement further. So, this would rather be staying in between this individual's HR team and leadership team as a collaborative point. We do not necessarily promote it internally in the organisation. But whatever is naturally happening, we do support the positive vibes of it.
[0:29:21] David Green: Where have you actually seen AI make a meaningful difference in your HR work?
[0:29:28] Olena Bondareva: Definitely, this has been a big project for us in the past year as well. And we were happy to implement AI Chatbot to support our employees 24-7 with any questions they will have. As quite often, any HR representative is receiving the message or email like, "Sorry for a stupid question..." and we feel that sometimes people may feel awkward on asking those questions which may look basic, or they are finding it challenging to find information in the company handbooks. And this is where we're making sure that the chatbot is not only providing the data, but also giving the information needed at any time of the day. And it also decreased the operational workload on the HR team, so everyone is able to focus on more meaningful things every day.
The second aspect was talent acquisition efficiency. So, we've implemented the system which actually allowed us to make the screening more efficiently, increase the pipeline of the candidates' outreach to a bigger number of talents and make sure that we are actually picking the top AAA players from the available market globally. And at the same time, we were able to continuously, quarter-over-quarter, increase the speed of closing the vacancies and finding those talents, while improving our numbers on the onboarding efficiency, on time to productivity, and at the same time of people staying and working for a long time further in the company.
The last but not least would be in preparing analytics and also performance reviews. So, in preparing our analytics, it would be giving the highlights out of the big number of data, how to connect the dots. Not every organisation has a dedicated HR analyst, our people data analyst person, and the same for us. We didn't hire anyone specifically, but we learned that each team member, each HR business partner knows how to work with data, and trains up further the leadership. And that's where in preparing analytics, when connecting big number of dots, and not necessarily having a lot of time to sit down with the only analytics topics, it was really amazing and helping us to look into one direction, second direction, and then see how that connects with our priorities.
For performance management, it has been also amazing, very simple one, but it was a shortcut to number of performance reviews and actual understanding how the person grew over the previous several years, and what can be the future priorities to make sure that the person targets the right skills to develop realistically in the next several years, so that they're able to achieve the role they want to achieve in their careers further. So, connecting multiple data points, even in the 360 feedbacks from colleagues over the years and planning the future, it was also very useful insights we started receiving here.
[0:32:40] David Green: Really impressive. So, you've actually applied AI across a lot of the work that you're doing in HR; and actually, back to what we've talked about throughout the episode, Olena, the areas that you'd identified as being the most important areas that HR delivers in airSlate as well to the business. You mentioned, and maybe this comes back to the three or four priorities that you identified at first around getting the right HR system in place, having a focus on performance management, having a focus on people, data, and analytics as well, what were some of the things that you needed to have in place at airSlate, whether that's processes, data quality, culture, etc, before AI could add value?
[0:33:28] Olena Bondareva: That's indeed a very tricky point and the one which takes most of the time and effort of the team, so that each HR leader needs to understand that all team members have to value the accuracy of the data. And any data which is inserted into your system is clean and aligned with how you expect it to be inserted. So, it has been an exercise to make sure that all we have already injected into those systems is correct, and we can rely on it. And the second one would be the processes, so that all the processes we have are not jinxing what is already created, and further on, we can rely on it in the future.
The last but not least would be about the culture and everyone being in the same spot about understanding what is the future for us, how we are treating the future of us working with data and using the technology to help our job thrive. And this has been one of the things I also started injecting into the HR team as well, like over a year ago, to make sure that they understand how the technology works, what are the opportunities, how the data works, how do we look at the data. And that's where everyone started to be curious. And when creating the data, also responsible into the way it's managed further internally. So, these three aspects, long-term, I do think they helped us at this moment, but it's only the beginning of the journey, of course, and the good background to start with.
[0:35:12] David Green: I think one of the challenges organisations face is getting that communication out there and helping HR professionals, but also managers in the business, understand the importance of entering the right data in the right system at the right time. I don't know if you've got any kind of guidance that you could maybe offer to some of your peers who might be listening to this episode, because I know that there will be some listening who are struggling with this.
[0:35:37] Olena Bondareva: Definitely. So, this has been the topic over multiple companies and leaders for the last several years, definitely. And I've been contacting and talking to other leaders, asking what do they have versus what are we doing in our company? And that's where I came up with this idea of the fact that whatever you ask to be inserted into the system has to be as simple, as short as possible, and easy to understand so that there's no grey area between how you understand it, how you shape it. If you ask employees and leaders to continue inserting this data into your system, the proper training, which will be creating the need, which will be creating them being hungry for the outcomes of the data they create, it's very essential in the beginning to be set up so that we can present, "Hey, this is what you can get if this is maintained properly".
That's where this insights, also what we have received from HiBob recently, the insights with the 360 feedbacks as an example of our time and as a summary of all the feedbacks you have received, has been really amazing, as people were able also to see the impact, not only each individual text is there, but also a great, amazing summary which can be used for further development and focused individual development plan. So, that's where when actually making sure the data is clean, what has to be done is a proper alignment with everyone who's going to be working on this, on why we do this, and how exactly it has to be done, so that we can be happy together with the result we will receive in the end, like in the next quarter, in the next two quarters, so that it's easy and supported by the technology as inserting it into the system, but at the same time, insightful.
Another thing what we have had was amazing. As a tool, as an example, we had to run really quickly after one of the big changes we had in the company, really quickly, we needed to understand what is the actual situation within our teams, if we have any increased retention risks, if we are risking to lose a big number of people, and this may impact our business further. So, that's where we had to ask all our leaders to team up and in just one month, insert all the data into the system on how do they see the potential risks in their teams, how do they analyse, what's the probability, and how this may be impacting the business further. It was quite painful as an exercise. However, we did understand that some of the leaders did not structurally think about this question before in the way how we proposed them to think about it. And it's made a really amazing effect when some leaders had actually amazing insights on how they look at their teams, how they evaluate what their teams are able to achieve, and their impact on the organisation; meanwhile, understanding better what they do as leaders to systematically make sure that they do not create retention risk themselves.
This has also motivated them to continue inserting the data into the system to see the progress, and see time-over-time, year-over-year, but also at scale versus other teams, how they do this versus how it reacts in people and their potential risks and their impact on the organisation.
[0:39:25] David Green: So, a couple more questions. I'm really enjoying this conversation. We could end up having a two-hour episode. Don't worry, we're not going to have a two-hour episode, Olena and people listening. But I'm interested, as an HR leader that's been an HR leader for a while, been working in this space, and obviously previously at PwC as well, do you see AI and new ways of working leading to flatter, more networked organisations? Or do you think -- or maybe that's a yes, but do we still need strong middle management, because I know there's lots of opinions out there at the moment? I'd love to hear your opinion, based on the fact that you actually work in a senior HR role in a company.
[0:40:02] Olena Bondareva: Yeah, it's indeed a very interesting topic. And I'm pretty sure that many leaders are very curious about what's going to be the org design of us in the future, of the organisations of the future, and what would be the ratio of managers per employee, one of the top questions as well. And also, one of the top arguments in between, are we too big in number of managers at this moment or can we shrink down? And I do think that middle management is very essential and important to drive the results of the organisation, as we do want to scale and we do want to help the organisation deliver results as fast as possible. So, we will need different levels of employee seniority, and that's where management is very essential. However, from what we see right now, and I can add it also to the theory of different ages of different views at how we work, why we work, what motivates different generations to work, and it changes a lot to how the work is done regularly on daily-routine basis and how the leaders should be doing that.
So, when it comes to middle management of the future, I would see that it's the organisation is not going to be becoming more flat, still we're going to have big companies. However, the leadership must be shifting from just control to setting clear expectations, like control, clear expectations, and setting the timelines, to enabling what do we want to achieve so that there is clarity, where are we going, why we're going there, what is the structure, what we want to see in the future together, and how do we collaborate together to make sure that it's happening. So, this should be an invisible glue which is driving the results of each team and making them really focused on what has to be done, how, and why.
[0:42:14] David Green: Two more questions, Olena, and then we get to the question of the series. So, these are the first one, let's say you get a CHRO listens to you on this podcast and thinks, "Oh, I'd like to ask Olena this", you know, they're scaling from 100 people to 1,000 people, and they already feel behind. What would your -- and again, I appreciate there's not one answer to this, but generally, what would your 90-day playbook look like?
[0:42:42] Olena Bondareva: For an HR leader, I would be saying build the foundations. And the foundations can start with what I started with, it was the systems, yes? Unless you have systems, you'll not be able to basically deliver what is expected from the company. For me, the foundations also have started and I didn't mention this, but it's the most important, is make sure that you have a strong team under you, that you have those employees, even if they are individual contributors, they should be leaders and experts in their field. So, these foundations from the system perspective and enablers in the team for any C-level leader is very important. And then, the second one would be establishing the performance and leadership frameworks so that you can ensure the delivery of the business results properly, within expected timeframes, and that it should be predictable results, building the predictability for the company, where we are going and what we are actually relying on.
Then, as early as possible after these two, to make sure that you have a data discipline in place, and the system to be supporting that.
[0:43:56] David Green: And I'm going to get you to look in your crystal ball now, Olena. And, no, we won't come back and test you on this. But there's two questions looking towards the future a bit. So, first one, let's look five years out, let's look to 2030. What do you believe will distinguish the HR leaders who thrive in the AI era from those that struggle?
[0:44:19] Olena Bondareva: I do think the major distinguisher will be a shift of the focus from hierarchies to ecosystems of talent, to the systems which are fluid, they're cross-border, they're AI-powered, where HR team will be responsible for designing the trust, fairness, the culture of reliability, and the future adaptability for the company, which will make it work. So, for me, the major idea is to create sort of a heaven for employees, to make sure that they can focus on the main thing, is how to make this business as amazing as possible, and grow as fast as possible and conquer the bigger population of customers and bring best results. And HR role would be to make sure that they have everything from the very bottom up in place to support that.
[0:45:24] David Green: Very good. And that leads to the question of the series, which it might expand on what you've already got, or you might have something a little bit different or related to it. So, the question of the series is, what's the single biggest shift in the future of work you foresee by 2030, and how will or how can HR lead it?
[0:45:44] Olena Bondareva: Oh, the future is going to be very interesting for many people. And I do think that if you would ask any person right now, "Would you want to look into the future, at least for the next five or ten years, what's going to be happening?" everyone's like, "Yes, yes, of course, what's going to be happening to us in the AI era". And specifically, for HR leaders, I think those leaders will be mostly distinguished among others, which can combine two things. The first one, and it's like you have to do it now, it's data literacy. You have to understand data, you have to work with data, otherwise it's not scalable, it's not up-to-date, it's blind basically. And data literacy is a must-have.
The second one would be about human fluency, I was looking for this word. So, it's about leading with empathy. It's understanding that each person, and I've been working in HR for over 17 years, and I still believe, and that's why I like working and I love working with people, is when leading with empathy, understanding that if you provide the right atmosphere, the right support, the right motivation and vision and clarity to what you're trying to achieve, each person is able to become the most amazing and the best version of them. And this is mastering those with drive. Like actually leading with understanding that humans are amazing creatures which can become amazing in the future and are able to deliver even more, could be another changing factor to people really willing to join those organisations and then make those organisations even more successful. So, data and people.
[0:47:38] David Green: What a perfect way to end our conversation and the episode. Olena, it's been an absolute pleasure to speak with you. It's been inspirational to listen to your story and what you're building at airSlate. And I know that many of our listeners are going to be similarly inspired and also be able to take a lot of practical examples and tips, I think, on their own journeys as well. So, thanks very much for being on the show. Can you share with listeners how they can follow you on social media, maybe find out more about your work at airSlate?
[0:48:13] Olena Bondareva: Definitely. So, the best place will be LinkedIn, where you will be able to find any news updates about the current state of things. And with this podcast, David, thank you for inviting me. I will be also more inspired to share some of the new thoughts on the topic of data and people.
[0:48:31] David Green: Thank you. And I look forward to hopefully at some point meeting you in person, Olena, as well. So, maybe at a HiBob event. I was at one of their events in London earlier this year, which was really impressive to hear about how a lot of HiBob customers are very data-driven and data-fluent and people-fluent like you are as well. So, that was good to see. Olena, thank you very much.
[0:48:55] Olena Bondareva: Thank you, David. It was really a pleasure.
[0:48:59] David Green: That's all for today's episode of the Digital HR Leaders podcast. A huge thank you to Olena Bondareva for sharing such a thoughtful and honest view into what it takes to lead HR through complexity and scale, and for the practical insights on leadership, influence, and the role of data in driving change. And thank you as always to you, our listeners, for tuning in each week and listening to the show. If today's episode sparked ideas, questions, or even a shift in perspective, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share the episode with a colleague or friend. It really helps us reach more forward-thinking leaders like you.
To stay connected with us at Insight222, follow us on LinkedIn, visit our website at insight222.com, and don't forget to sign up for our bi-weekly newsletter at myHRfuture.com to support your journey in people analytics and HR transformation. That's all for now, thank you for tuning in and we'll be back next week with another episode the Digital HR Leaders podcast. Until then, take care and stay well.