Episode 249: How HSBC is Scaling People Analytics, Skills, and AI to Drive Workforce Transformation (with Rob Etheridge)
The future of work won’t wait - and neither can your people analytics strategy.
On today’s episode of the Digital HR Leaders Podcast, Rob Etheridge, Global Head of Workforce Strategy and Insights at HSBC, joins the Digital HR Leaders podcast with host David Green to reveal how the bank is building a forward-looking people analytics function - grounded in skills, AI, and trust.
Join them, as they explore:
The evolution of people analytics at HSBC and across the industry
How to design and scale an operating model that delivers business value
Why skills are a strategic priority - and how HSBC is addressing them
Building governance frameworks for AI in people analytics
The leadership behaviours that embed analytics into decision-making
This episode is sponsored by TechWolf.
TechWolf helps enterprises get fast, accurate, and actionable skills data—without surveys. From identifying the skills your workforce has to mapping what they need, TechWolf’s AI integrates seamlessly with your existing systems to turn messy data into strategic advantage.
Learn more at techwolf.com
This episode of the Digital HR Leaders podcast is brought to you by TechWolf.
[0:00:09] David Green: Here at Insight222, a lot of the conversations we're having with people analytics leaders right now are around designing people analytics functions that deliver value while navigating the fast-moving world of skills, AI, and organisational change. However, to make this happen, it requires a clear people analytics operating model, trusted insights, and a thoughtful approach to how humans and technology work together, especially as AI starts to change the very fabric of how we understand work. And few leaders have brought that vision to life at scale quite like Rob Etheridge, Managing Director and Global Head of Workforce Strategy and Insights at HSBC, which is why I'm delighted to welcome Rob to the show, to share how he and his team have evolved their operating model, why skills have become a strategic priority for the bank, and how AI-powered insights are helping to drive transformation. We'll also discuss what it takes to build governance and trust around AI, the leadership capabilities required to embed people analytics into decision-making, and how to balance technological progress with the human side of work.
So, if you're thinking about how to evolve your own people analytics function into a true strategic partner to the business, and want to understand how skills can support workforce transformation, this episode will give you plenty to reflect on. With that, let's get the conversation started.
Let's get started with an introduction to you for our listeners. Give us a little bit about your career history and what brought you into the world of people analytics?
[0:01:53] Rob Etheridge: Yeah, so we have to go right back, I guess. As a school leaver, I ventured into the world of accounting. That was my first foray into the corporate world. And I've got to say, I really hated being a trainee accountant, but it wasn't for me, and I ascertained that within a few months. But finished my qualification, and quickly moved into business analysis in the marketing area actually, in the travel industry. So, I was in marketing, and that sort of led me down the path of looking at human behaviour and business outcomes, that combination. I found that really fascinating. And ultimately, that led me into HR, into Reward. I worked as a business partner for a little while, and did things like business transformation, until in about 2015, I got a tap on the shoulder from the COO at Deutsche Bank, where I was working at the time, to say, "Hey, there's this thing called people analytics. We think you could be good for it". I was aware of people analytics before that and a customer of people analytics, but hadn't considered running it up until that point. But that was the moment where it became real for me.
[0:03:09] David Green: And you've been at HSBC now for a few years. It's not just people analytics that you're looking at, at HSBC, is it, in your remit?
[0:03:18] Rob Etheridge: That's right. So, people analytics is part of it, but it's coupled up with employee listening, with workforce planning, and also business transformation as well. And that's something that's currently, at HSBC, right at the forefront of everything, is actually how do we transform the business so that it's ready for the future? We have a new CEO about a year into his agenda, who's really pushing the business to become simpler, to become more agile, to become more effective, to focus in on what it does well. And of course, all of that has an impact on the workforce, the decisions that are being made around the workforce. So, it really shines a spotlight on what we're doing as well. So, yes, we've got some of the pieces of HR that you'd expect being data-led together in the function that I manage as the Head of Workforce Strategy, but I think at the moment, a real lens around that transformation piece and how we help the transformation by using those products and capabilities.
[0:04:29] David Green: You've mentioned you've been in the field for quite some time now, so ten years in Deutsche Bank and now at HSBC, with people analytics amongst your responsibilities. How have you seen HR and people analytics evolve during that time, maybe both within HSBC, but across the wider industry as well?
[0:04:49] Rob Etheridge: Yeah. Well, let's go people analytics first. I'm going back ten years ago, getting the tap on the shoulder to say, "Hey, there's this thing called people analytics. Do you feel like setting it up?" What was in place at the time were a bunch of disparate HRMI teams. And so, I guess my experience, and knowing obviously there were there were organisations that were ahead of what we were doing at Deutsche Bank at the time, but really it was about moving from the supply of reporting to supporting decision-making from a strategic perspective. That really was the aim of setting up back then at Deutsche Bank. And I guess that's the journey, as I reflect on how things have changed over the last ten years. It's the strengthening of our ability to be able to then support those strategic decisions.
So, firstly, the types of question that we get as a people analytics team, I think have changed over time. I think as Chief People Officers, as other execs around the organisation become aware of the capability, it's almost a case of them pulling on it more. And there are then some really large business-critical topics and questions that need answering. And so, what I see then over time is an evolution of the function to become much more oriented towards those questions. And really, the success of the function is based now on, "Okay, well, how well do you answer those questions? What influence can you have on the strategy of the organisation, given the capabilities that are at play?" So, I think that's the people analytics side of it. And of course, with AI coming and new tooling, what it does is it just strengthens that proposition from a people analytics perspective. So, I think we're at an exciting time right now, if we can leverage things like agentic AI, not only so that people analytics people can perhaps be more effective at what they do, but also the delivery of things like insights across an organisation. Suddenly we can democratise this in potentially in a much easier way.
So, I think development's there. And I think in terms of the construct of these areas as well, as we said before, at HSBC, we've moved a few things together that make sense as a whole. If you look at the function and think about what we're trying to achieve, then having these different data-oriented teams together in one makes a lot of sense, and I think there's been quite a bit of change there. I would say the change that I see from an HR perspective is slower. Honestly, I think so. I think with people analytics leading out front in terms of that data led practice, I think HR is still getting there. I think the conversations that you and I are involved with, or particularly you with all the conferences and forums that you're involved with, and some of the ones I'm involved with, people are still at different levels of maturity. And I suppose, when we look at the industry at large, we still seem to be talking about how do we become data-led as an HR function or a people function, which I think we're getting to the point where it's really becoming an imperative that people and the topic of people is also regarded as a data-led topic within organisations.
So, yeah, I wish that was going faster. I think it is in pockets. I think where organisations have done it well in the past, they're accelerating away from the pack as well, in terms of what they're involved with, the type of role that a Chief People Officer has. I think we're starting to see combinations of roles at that C-suite level, where Chief People Officers are starting to do other things as well, because the strategy of people and being data-led means you can really integrate that thinking into other areas of business.
[0:08:48] David Green: Yeah, I mean I think we're seeing, just echoing what you're saying, Rob, it's an exciting time to be in HR, an exciting time to be in people analytics, probably has been for the last decade, and we've seen HR in many organisations kind of move from that traditional role as a support function to be more of a strategic partner to the business. I think COVID definitely accelerated that. And people analytics is a core capability to help Chief People Officers to be able to do that. And we've seen people analytics grow and seen it move again from kind of the periphery of HR to the core, and many people like you, peers of you, your remits have increased, the team size has increased, and the impact that you're having is increasing as well. But you're right, and maybe many people listening to this podcast who work in HR, still as a function across the function, across all companies, I mean data literacy in HR is definitely improving, but is it improving quickly enough? Probably not. And I think your hypothesis, as it were, of the leading companies pulling away is something that we're starting to see in the research that we do at Insight222.
Still, when we speak, and thank you, Rob, for being part of the People Analytics Program at Insight222, we still, when we talk to you and your peers, this building data literacy in HR, particularly amongst HR business partners and HR leadership teams sometimes as well, is still a challenge that many of you have. I was going to talk a little bit more of some of the other research that we've done at Insight222. This is around the operating model for people analytics and kind of that increasing scope of responsibilities that we're seeing, because I think it will bring it so you can share with listeners how you've designed your team at HSBC. It's still a big conversation around what should be in a people analytics function and what shouldn't. Especially with the emergence of AI, we did an episode a few weeks ago now with Dawn Klinghoffer at Microsoft, and she was talking about how she's reshaping the team because of AI.
So, I guess the question for you, because I know it's always something people find interesting, obviously you've led and scaled people analytics teams now at two companies, how have you set up the people analytics function at HSBC, Rob? And please feel free to comment on any of my ramblings that you just heard as well.
[0:11:16] Rob Etheridge: Yeah, no worries. Well, I mean one thing that just strikes me, and I'll bring an analogy in later on around musical chairs, just around HR being ready to seize the moment. I think there is a real moment right now around the topic of work. And you just mentioned AI and how we're starting to integrate that. I think there is a moment where we need to sort of seize it as an HR function, because if we don't, I think decisions will start happening without HR. But I know we'll get onto that a bit more later on. But I think also, it talks to how people analytics teams are evolving as well, so it's relevant there with AI coming into it. The way we think about it at HSBC and have set up our team is really, we've got three products and we've got three capabilities. Now, in reality, we've got more than that, but that's okay. We wanted to keep it simple so that we understood, "Well, what's the core proposition that we're offering the organisation? And how can people understand what we do and navigate that, and therefore make the relationship between us and our stakeholders as effective as possible?"
So, three products. Actionable insights, product number one. Now that might take different forms. It could be a piece of research, it could be a dashboard, it could be accessible MI for managers. But the point and the focus of that product is, and that product team is, are we producing things that are effective, that are useful? The last thing we want to hear someone say is, "That's interesting". If it's interesting and that's it, well, then it was no good. It has to be useful, so it's got to go beyond the 'interesting' comment. So, our insights are designed, and there is a focus on making sure that people can do something with them. It's the so-what question. So, product number one.
Product number two, workforce planning. So, I think we've got this very, very tight combination and relationship between the workforce planning and insights team, with the insights really powering the assumption sets and the approach to workforce planning and providing the input there. Really, our focus with that product is providing the organisation with a clear path to the future workforce. What does that shape look like? What does the future workforce need to look and feel like and be able to do in order to do the work that's going to make us successful as an organisation?
Thirdly then, we've got employee listening, the idea there being you need clear signals on sentiment. Firstly, to see how the things that HR are doing or the business is doing at large are landing with employees, what's the sentiment around that; but also, to ensure there's a dialogue between colleagues and leadership within the bank. So, there's a real focus now on ensuring, especially as we've got a new set of leadership within HSBC, and the business is transforming, it's been really important to ensure that there's that dialogue going backwards and forwards, and that colleagues at large are feeling like their voice is heard, that there is something two-way going on, where if feedback is provided, then actions happening or at least conversations are occurring as a result of that.
So, I think the combination of those three products for us really make up the core proposition of the team. And then, what we do is we kind of layer in and matrix in three capabilities from our side of things. And those capabilities are around delivery, and we use Agile to deliver. So, everybody in the team is clued up on how we deliver things, the methods that we use, and the way we work with each other. Data science and visualisation expertise, and now we can add to that AI expertise. We'll get onto that, but making sure that we've got the technical capabilities across the team that we need in order to deliver those products really well. And then, the third one is consulting. So, having a layer of consultants in the team and a consulting capability at large that enables us to use critical thinking when we think about problem statements, when we're working with stakeholders to articulate what we're trying to achieve, getting down to the why of why we would do something. And then, contracting around how we deliver that back, what does success criteria look like.
I think every people analytics leader and team member will tell us that scope creep is a real threat. So, being really clear about what you're delivering, why, and when that's been a success is really key. And the consulting capability within the team really helps us with that. So, three products, three capabilities.
[0:16:17] David Green: This episode of the Digital HR Leaders podcast is sponsored by TechWolf. TechWolf takes care of likely the most annoying thing in HR: getting good data. Whether it's data on skills your employees have, data on tasks your workforce is performing, or data on how AI is impacting work in large enterprises. It can take you years, you can lose trust over it, it can even have your most ambitious executive lose faith. But now, in a matter of weeks, TechWolf's AI can get you and your employees data on the skills they have, the skills they need, and the tasks they perform. No long-winded and inaccurate employee surveys, continuously up-to-date, and especially integrated in the platforms you're already using, instead of adding a new one. Companies like PayPal, T-Mobile, HSBC, GSK, Ericsson, and Workday rely on TechWolf's skills data to deliver measurable impact, accelerating time to hire by 32%, increasing internal mobility by 42% and reducing talent management costs by an average of $1,000 per employee each year, alongside many other proven use cases. Stuck with bad skills, task or job data? Talk to TechWolf, visit techwolf.com.
I know when you kindly hosted a peer meeting for the members of the People Analytics Program, I think it was the start of 2024, wasn't it? God, doesn't time fly. And I think that the way that you and Beck, I think, who leads your consulting function, walked through how you interact with the business was really powerful, and I think it really resonated with those in the room. And maybe if you're able to share some of that with listeners, how does that consulting front end, and maybe the wider team, how do you interact with the business, not just in HR, but the business as well?
[0:18:36] Rob Etheridge: So, the first thing we wanted to create was one entry into the team for our stakeholders. Whilst we've tried to simplify the proposition and explain it in an easy way, people don't always know where to go or where to come to. They just know that they've got a question or they've got a problem and they need help with it. So, what we wanted was a set of people within the team whose job it is really to be that front door, so that stakeholders know where to come to in the first instance, whenever they've got a question or even just want to perhaps bounce something off someone who knows more about the products than they do.
So, having consultants then facing off to each of our key stakeholders has been really great. And that's not a new model, but I think it's part and parcel of being consultative as a team. But then, it's allowing those consultants and backing them up, if you like, in terms of being able to manage that relationship effectively. So, I would say the combination of us adopting Agile methodologies within the team, and then having these consultants, has been really key. Because what it enables the consultants to say is, "Well, here's how we're doing things as a team, here's how we prioritise. Here are what we have laid out as our priorities for the next quarter and year. If you're coming to me with a question, actually, good news. We're focusing on this already. Here's the stream of work that we've got set up". So, it helps the consultant to articulate back to the stakeholder how we're dealing with work and what we're prioritising.
Now, sometimes it's the other answer. Sometimes it's, "Okay, interesting question, can see that there's value in that, it's not currently on the book of work. Help me describe why it should be". And I think by having that mechanism sitting behind the consultants, and then knowing that there's something they can fall back on in terms of a reasoned and justified stack of work that's being looked at, with clear benefits and value behind it, it allows them to have really good, sometimes challenging conversations with stakeholders. And then it becomes about contracting. It's like, "Well, actually, you've brought something up that's really worthwhile, really valuable. How do we get that into the book of work? And if it's valuable for you, it's probably valuable for other stakeholders. Actually, if there's a collective of people who think this is more important than some of the things we're doing, great, let's have the conversation". And then, we use our Agile methodologies to kind of work around that. So, I think actually, the combination of the two has been really key in making that work.
[0:21:14] David Green: And that probably leads nicely on to, I know one of the really big pillars of work for you at HSBC and a huge focus for you and the team is skills. And I've had your peers on from other organisations and we've had companies like TechWolf coming in as well. Everyone says, "If you're going to focus on skills, start with a business problem". So, why is skills such an important priority for HSBC right now?
[0:21:42] Rob Etheridge: Yeah. And I think the first thing to say about skills is, there's a massive focus on it but it's not a new focus necessarily. But the way you can go about solving for the problem has really changed. And that's what's different over the last couple of years, I would say. I think we can go back to the '90s and think about skills-led programmes and strategies. So, it's been around a while. What's different now, and I think what we found at HSBC, is when you're working at scale, and we have business problems, for example, that we need to solve, like expanding our wealth management in Asia, so that has been a key strategic outcome that we've been looking for for a while at HSBC, is how do we really grow that business? We know there's huge potential. But actually, with some of the markets we want to operate in, we haven't got enough wealth managers to reach our ambition, and we know that there's not enough wealth managers even in the market to fuel that ambition as well. So, what do you do?
So, there we have a classic business problem that skills can really help with. Because if we can understand what skills we have inside the business, and how proximate those are to the skills we need, well, then we can start looking at development, we can look at mobility and the fulfilment side of this, to then fuel and make sure that the workforce has the right capabilities, is the right shape, is the right size in the areas we need it to be, so that we can get to the business outcomes that we've set ourselves.
So, along the way over the last few years, there have been these kind of specific business problems that we've been able to get involved with from a skills perspective, and start to use a really data-driven, AI-led way of dealing with those. And we've matured over time. It hasn't necessarily been a straightforward or easy journey to start using large language models and AI in terms of understanding the skills we've got. But actually, through putting into practice some of the theory around those use cases, we've come a long way. And we're now at a stage where we're saying, "Well, actually, this is a capability we just need to have. We just need to be able to firstly know what skills we've got in the organisation; but secondly, know what skills we need in the future". And that's where TechWolf comes in. As you mentioned before, they've really helped us over the last two, three years to formulate not just the way that we get the data, but also how we structure that data, how we put it to use, how we analyse it, how we govern it, which is really important.
So, where we've ended up today is, we're working on a strategy where from a workforce planning perspective, we want skills embedded in the way that we think about the workforce. And so, we can think about this as bookends. We think about our workforce strategy being one bookend, where we've articulated the future shape and capability of the organisation. The other bookend then is, do we have the data on our current organisation so we know what we can and can't do and what that means for individuals? And then you've got to think, "Okay, well our plans then should start to bridge this". So, getting those bookends in is the first job really, where are you going to and where are you coming from? And so, we're getting that in place with TechWolf's help, and starting to attach skills both to our employees, but also to our workforce plans.
[0:25:13] David Green: What have been maybe one or two of the big challenges that you've had to overcome?
[0:25:18] Rob Etheridge: Yeah. If I think about that specific case, the end of that story, well, it is open-ended, in other words. The question that then came back from the business is, "Okay, so now we've got these insights, we want to act on them. Can the people function help us?" And I suppose that it's really led to what we're doing now, which is the answer to that was, "No, not really. We can, in abstract, but do we have specific methods and ways of then now stepping in and using this data to shape how we help you acquire the right talent, develop the right talent, etc?" So, I think what it shone a light on was, as a people function, what do we need to do now to enable the business to act on this type of intelligence? So, that's the current challenge, is ensuring that we are working in concert as a people function across those different areas to come up with solutions for the business that says, "The intelligence is great. Actually, what do we do about it?"
One of the things we're working on is a fulfilment playbook. So, my team, in conjunction with the talent teams within the people function, okay, how do we know therefore when to go and start creating candidate pools against certain types of skill or competency in the market? How do we know which skills we need to understand the proficiency of those skills, rather than just the fact that they exist? How do we ensure that actually, we're giving people the development opportunities enough in advance before we start looking at the market? And how do we channel people internally through to that? What does that look like from an employee perspective? What does this proposition look like? Is it simple? Is it navigable? So, I think those are the challenges for us now. We're busy putting the foundations in place from a data perspective, but it's really, what do you do with that as a people function? Fortunately for us, what we'd said is, "Well, the POC stops here, we were very clear up front. It's about the data and it's about the intelligence". But very quickly, it shone a light on the work we need to do as a people function then to follow up on that and make sure, to your point, that it's actionable. Otherwise, we're leaving the businesses high and dry with great intelligence, but no way of actually acting on it.
[0:27:38] David Green: I want to take a short break from this episode to introduce the Insight222 People Analytics Programme, designed for senior leaders to connect, grow, and lead in the evolving world of people analytics. The programme brings together top HR professionals with extensive experience from global companies, offering a unique platform to expand your influence, gain invaluable industry insight and tackle real-world business challenges. As a member, you'll gain access to over 40 in-person and virtual events a year, advisory sessions with seasoned practitioners, as well as insights, ideas and learning to stay up-to-date with best practices and new thinking. Every connection made brings new possibilities to elevate your impact and drive meaningful change. To learn more, head over to insight222.com/program and join our group of global leaders.
We're going to move to something now which is quite linked to this, and I know it's a real passion for you, it's how work is changing as well, and I guess some of the skills data will probably be revealing that. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you're thinking about the balance between what humans do and what technology is increasingly taking on, and maybe how that's feeding into the workforce planning work that you're doing as well.
[0:29:13] Rob Etheridge: Yeah, and I guess the term that comes to mind is 'future of work', but I feel like we need a new term. So, perhaps you could ask your listeners, David, to write in with whatever that new term is, because I think if I say future of work, it takes us back a few years, coming out of COVID, it was the hybrid thing. I think it means something completely different now. And if I look at the workforce planning arena, that traditionally you used to talk about the build, the buy, the borrow, and then bots would come. All the Bs, and then bot would come somewhere in there, usually at the bottom. It's, "Okay, well, what can we automate?" I feel like the conversation now needs to be switched into a different order, because what we have is this huge surge of capability coming into organisations. Now, opinions vary on, well, how much impact is that actually going to have? I think I listened to a podcast the other day where someone was proposing that there'd only be three jobs by 2030. One of them was a plumber, another one was an electrician. I don't quite subscribe to that. At the same time, I think everybody agrees.
[0:30:23] David Green: No, otherwise, we'd better go and retrain fast, Rob.
[0:30:27] Rob Etheridge: Exactly! I'll be talking to an AI this time next year, David, I'm afraid. But on the other hand, If we don't think it's going to go that far, and I don't, because actually businesses and infrastructure and the paradigm of how you do things needs to change, and it's just not going to change that quickly, in my view. But on the other hand, I think we can all agree that AI is having an impact right now, and it's going to continue to have an impact, and that change is just going to speed up. So, it's something we've got to think about. And so, I feel like rather than saying, "Okay, well, build, buy, borrow, bot", that bot piece, it comes out of that conversation completely and it's part of the starting point. So, now we've got a workforce of humans on one side, and we've got automation, agentic AI, generative AI on this other side. And really the question is, "Well, how do you combine these two things?" Because the agentic and AI side of this is coming and is here, so it can't be one of the last things we think about when we're thinking about workforce strategy. It probably needs to be one of the first things we're thinking about.
Well, what is the strategy around leveraging technology to get work done? And how do you create the right symbiotic relationship between that technology and humans, so you're getting the best out of both sides? Because I think the companies and the businesses that are going to be most successful at this, they're going to be playing humans to their strengths, and they're going to be playing technology to its strengths, and ensuring that those two, there's a handshake between the two that works. And unless we start thinking about it like that, we're going to miss opportunities, certainly from an efficiency perspective, but potentially more seriously from a productivity point of view and an effectiveness perspective. So, I think it's fascinating. I think we're at a real shift, and I don't think it's going to put everybody out of work, but I do think it's going to change the nature of the work and already is changing the nature of the work. We think of things like vibe coding, where actually the skills that you might have needed two or three years ago as a technologist, they've completely changed.
However, the critical thinking, the design thinking, the way that we audit and govern work, all of these things are actually then emerging as skills that are just human skills that are becoming more and more important. So, the way we start to think about these two strategies and merge them, I think is becoming the next big question. And therefore, really, it's about defining work. I was interested to see, having worked with TechWolf, their research on jobs and the tasks that make up jobs, because really then that becomes the component that you want to have a look at. It's, well, what's the opportunity to start getting machines and bots, technology, AI to take on that work? Where is that opportunity and how do we help humans embrace that so that they can do the things that they're good at even better? And I think if we start with that question, then we can get into the workforce strategy side piece.
[0:33:47] David Green: Bringing this back maybe to leading a people analytics function, people analytics and workforce planning function, I think, let's expand the question. So, beyond the technology and the models, what have you learned about leading a people analytics and workforce planning function that really delivers value to the business, that maybe you could share with listeners that are maybe in an earlier stages of this?
[0:34:08] Rob Etheridge: Yeah, I think clarity of vision is absolutely key. And what that vision should do is it should connect the work of the team directly to the key strategic objectives of the organisation at large. Firstly, it motivates all of us to do a good job, right, because actually, if you can see that you're contributing to something, and people analysts really can contribute to the biggest decisions that companies have to make. If we just think about for most organisations, the biggest overhead for the business is the people. It's usually 60%, 70% or even more of the cost of the organisation is wrapped up in managing and paying and ensuring that people can do the best job that they can. So, that being the case, being able to ensure that the decisions around that are key is absolutely a business imperative. And so, drawing that line between the work that you're doing and those key business outcomes are key. And that's just from a cost side, let alone productivity or customer service or other key success criteria that the organisation may have, all of them can be traced back through people. And therefore, people analytics can be absolutely critical in making sure that your organisation is successful.
Then, I think what that does is it helps you ruthlessly prioritise. If you can't draw that line between what you're doing or what you plan to do, and some of those really big things, then you're probably working on the wrong stuff. And so, when it comes to producing value out of the team, always make sure that there is a link there somewhere to those imperative outcomes. And I think it talks to the nature of working in people analytics at the moment, and I'm sure it's always going to be like this. There's always more work than there are resources. So, we're never going to be bored, we're never going to be tapping our fingers because someone always wants something. And usually, all of that work has some value attached to it.
So, the difficulty, and it goes back to the consulting question you asked earlier, the difficulty sometimes is saying no to something that actually you can see value in. But is it as much value as other work that is directly aligned to the overarching business objectives? And if people can work with you to prove that it is or it isn't, well, that becomes a really good conversation between people of analytics functions and their stakeholders, thinking that critical mindset, well, why would we do this? What problem are we trying to solve? What outcome are we trying to aim for here? And does that link, does it help the organisation at large? And is it one of those big imperatives? Because if it's not, don't do it, focus on the other stuff.
[0:36:59] David Green: That's interesting. You basically brought out at least three of the characteristics that we found in leading companies in people analytics, through the annual research that we do at Insight222. One is this ability to influence senior stakeholders within the organisation, not just in HR, but obviously CFO, CEO and others. And that is through the influence of you as the leader, but also your team where you set the consulting up, we found that consulting is a key skill of leading companies. And then, the other one that you talked about there is that zen-like focus on the most important business priorities of the organisation, prioritising your work and reprioritising the work, because we know things change as well, on the most important business. And that helps you have impact as a people analytics leader and a people analytics team. And as you said, if you're twiddling your fingers in people analytics, that's when it's really time to worry.
So, Rob, moving to the final question, this is the question of the series that we're asking every guest in this series of the podcast. And I think it allows you to talk to some of the things that you've maybe already shared, or maybe a couple of things that you haven't. How can HR and people analytics lead the shift towards skills-powered workforce planning?
[0:38:20] Rob Etheridge: Yeah, it's really of the moment, isn't it, this one? I guess if I were to summarise where we've been and what we've talked about, recognise there's two parts to this. One is about the data and the foundations, the technical foundations of just having a capability of understanding what skills you've got in the organisation and what skills you need in the future. Now, every people function has a variety of different systems and ways of doing things. That's okay. But actually, it's all about the data. If you get the data piece of this right, it's the foundation for doing all of the rest of it. So, that is one track, and I think it's a really important track. And the key there is just to start, not aiming for perfection in the first instance, but just start that journey, because what you'll learn as that data comes together is invaluable, and it will help shape the rest of your journey. So, I think that's one track.
Then, recognise there is another track, and that's the fulfilment piece. So, at the same time as you're setting up this foundation, think about what are you going to do with that data and that intelligence on the other side? Because very quickly, you need to show the value of having invested in this type of data. Leverage AI and large language models. I would say this is impossible without it. You may do a one-off exercise from a skills perspective, a skills planning perspective. But essentially, what you'll be doing is resetting each time you do one of those initiatives. If you embed this agenda into AI and LLMs, then what you have is a perpetual way of keeping on top of that data, a perpetual way of governing that data, and then insights that are readily accessible, rather than having to start again from scratch and do an enormous amount of work to come up with actions that may well be out of date by the time you've actually ascertained what it is you need to do.
So, I think those are some of the practical things. We have most of the data with us. How do we leverage that now to form a view of what work looks like for our organisations? And that will keep us ahead and abreast of the developments as they come. It's difficult to know exactly what's going to come, isn't it? But at least if we are exercising that cognitive muscle and ensuring that we have a capability around skills, we'll be ready to adjust as this AI and agentic and maybe even general AI agenda unfurls over the next decade. We'll make sure we're well positioned.
[0:41:08] David Green: Great, Rob. It's been fantastic to speak with you, as it always is. I think you provide some really good practical examples of the work that you're doing at HSBC and your thinking around this, which I think is something that always resonates with me when we speak. And I'm sure that listeners will be able to take a lot away from it. Can you share how listeners can follow you and maybe get in touch and learn more about you and the great work that you're doing?
[0:41:34] Rob Etheridge: Yeah, thanks, David. So, Rob-Etheridge on LinkedIn, I would say that's the best way. I've got a few conferences and forums coming up, which I'll pop on there, where we're talking about exactly this topic around work, where's it headed? How do we reconstitute it? How do we think about it? What's the strategy? So, yeah, that's definitely where my head's at the moment. I think it's a fascinating topic. And yeah, would welcome connections and links to people who are wondering about the same stuff. And perhaps, well, I'll see you at one of those forums upcoming in the next couple of months. But thanks, David, it's been a pleasure. Pleased to join you today.
[0:42:14] David Green: A big thank you to Rob Etheridge for joining me today and sharing his invaluable insights into enhancing the value of the people analytics function. And of course, thank you to you, our listeners, for tuning in each week. If today's discussion sparked ideas or challenged your thinking, we'd be grateful if you'd subscribe, rate the show, and share it with a colleague. It really helps us continue bringing thoughtful, practical conversations to forward-thinking HR and people analytics professionals like you. So, stay connected with us at Insight222, follow us on LinkedIn, visit insight222.com, and sign up for our fortnightly newsletter at myHRfuture.com for the latest research, tools and trends shaping the future of HR and people analytics. That's all for now, thank you for tuning in and we'll be back next week with another episode of the Digital HR Leaders podcast. Until then, take care and stay well.